Nick Kroll's Big Mouth and Sexual Identity

In our fourth episode of Season 1, Shanny talks with Kelly Wilz and Cary Elza, two UWSP professors in The Department of Media Studies, about Netflix's Big Mouth!

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Our intro music was written by UWSP music student Derek Carden and our logo is by artist and graphic designer Ryan Dreimiller.

Transcript

Shanny Luft: 0:04

Hi, welcome to no cure for curiosity. I am Shanny Luft and this episode is about the Netflix show big mouth. Sex advice columnist Dan Savage called Big mouth. The smartest thing that has ever been on television about being 12 years old. Big mouth was co created by Nick Kroll and his interns hilarious, sometimes shockingly vulgar, and unusually sophisticated in the way that it explores race, identity, toxic masculinity, and sexual pleasure, particularly women's sexual pleasure. One of the fantastical conceits of big mouth is that each character is assigned a hormone monster. These are bizarre creatures that constantly appear on the show to encourage sexual thoughts and behaviors in their teenage assignments. The kids have complicated feelings about their hormone monsters, mirroring the complicated feelings that teenagers have with their actual hormones. Over the course of four seasons, big mouth has introduced other fantastical characters. There is Tito the anxiety mosquito voiced by Maria Bamford. There's a shame wizard who feeds on the kids sense of shame. And there's an enormous depression Kitty, who sometimes sits on top of the kids and weighs them down with hopeless thoughts. By externalizing all these emotions, big mouth allows the kids on the show to recognize and address their hormonal and emotional challenges in funny and touching ways. It's like a taste of Pixar it's inside out mixed with a little bit of South Park and with a dash of It's a Wonderful Life. If you've been watching big mouth, I think you'll enjoy this conversation. If you've never seen the show, it might help to watch a few episodes first. I also need to say that this was the very first episode I recorded for nuclear for curiosity. I've been learning a lot about microphones and audio since I recorded this, but I had such a great time talking with my colleagues. I thought it was worth sharing this episode despite the audio challenges. So I hope you can overlook the technical difficulties and enjoy this episode. And then come on to the Nokia for curiosity Facebook page to share your thoughts about big mouth and my conversation today. Kelly Wilz thank you for joining us. Kelly is a Professor of Communication at UW SP. She teaches courses on Women and Gender Studies. And Her research focuses on the intersection of media gender, politics and pop culture. And Kelly is the author of the book resisting rape culture through popular culture sex after me too. Thanks, Kelly. Great to be here. And my other guest is Carrie Elza. Carrie is the Associate Professor of Media Studies at University of Wisconsin Stevens Point, what a coincidence, where she teaches courses on screenwriting, Film and Media analysis, history and genre. A Kerry's publications include articles and chapters on children's and teen media, science fiction and fantasy series, new media and fandom and early animation carry. I feel like your entire publication list is relevant to this topic today. Everything you write about seems like it's in big mouth or touches on big mouth.

Cary Elza: 2:58

Except that I I kind of although I kind of feel like I'm Kelly is better equipped to handle the issues that are actually covered on this show. But I am excited to come at it from the angle with which I can come at it.

Shanny Luft: 3:13

Yeah, well, so let me say I'm the least qualified to be talking about this show, which is why you're both here. So I kind of want to start with you. You were the person who suggested this topic for a podcast. Why did you recommend it? What is it about this show that stands out to you.

Kelly Wilz: 3:27

So I started watching it not really knowing what it was going to be about. I knew it'd be fun. Again, I like nickel and dime Laney as well. And as I started watching, I just kept thinking this is so smart. And what I love about it a lot is that I like any mediated portrayals that talk about women's sexuality, women's pleasure, because there are just so few of them. And so I thought that this show does a really remarkable job of doing an honest portrayal about women's pleasure and talking about it in a very non judgmental way. I think one of the first episodes talks about like, This is so embarrassing, right? And just being honest about that, you know, our sex education was abysmal. And so we really, it was basically like how to use tampons and don't have sex mean that that was it don't get STDs. And so there was no talk about sexual orientation or pleasure, any of that. So I just kept thinking, wow, what if a show like this had existed when I was younger? Because I feel like it just covers so much ground in a really thoughtful way. For those reasons, amongst many, many others. I really appreciate the show.

Shanny Luft: 4:28

Cary, so why were you an evangelist for this show?

Cary Elza: 4:30

I was a huge fan of croal show. And it was brilliant. It was the most incisive takedown of early 2010s. And you know, just 2000s on reality television culture that I had ever seen. But I think that my I was thinking about this. And I think my very favorite part of this show and I think that just keeps me just interested in it and feeling like it's valuable is the persona allocation of abstract concepts to the fact that we have the hormone monsters and the fact that we've got like Tito, the anxiety mosquito, and I am sure we can get into all these characters. But boy, that would have been awfully helpful as a team, like the depression, Kitty, wow, that would have been a very helpful concept for me to internalize or rather externalize, you know, to think of this kind of this kind of entity is external that you can address and talk to and say like depression kiddie, like not now, I know you're awfully seductive, but please leave me alone. I have things to do. So I think that that is one of the most useful things that interventions on this show. And I honestly, like how could they have done it in such an honest way without those characters were so so powerful in your preteen, and teen years.

Shanny Luft: 5:54

And I'm fascinated by the relationship each kid has with their monsters, right? The monsters sometimes encourage them in ways that are helpful, you might encourage them to be brave, the monsters were on their side. Sometimes the monsters also tell them disgusting, embarrassing things. Sometimes the hormone monsters, tell them the wrong thing to do, or kind of it'll, it'll embed ideas in their heads that are terrible. And the kids kind of aren't sure whether they should do it or not. And so I love the fact that the kids can argue with their monster, they have a relationship with their own hormones. That to me is really fascinating and subtle and nuanced. And one of the ways I think the show really works. What do you think? Do you have a favorite one of those personified emotions?

Cary Elza: 6:37

I love Connie, who Maya Rudolph. Yeah, I think she got an Emmy for that, actually, for her voicing of Connie. So Connie is a hormone monster of Jessie and I love the relationship between Jessie and Connie. Like so. Connie's like, tell, tell your mother to eff off and call her by her first name and but but I'm not maybe identifying so strongly with Connie the hormone monster first of all my mother's name is Connie just for the record. But secondly, because you'd like that feeling of having having like a voice in your head, your roots your mother. And there's other moments too, but I absolutely love her portrayal. Maya Rudolph's voice is just she's both sultry and she's she's forceful and I I just I love her so much.

Audio Clip: 7:35

What are you? I am the hormone monster. You're here to tell me how terrible being a woman is the Statue of Liberty and my mom already covered that. The French are full of shit and your mother's a woman in decline, and you're on the rise, girl. I am? But you'll have to make some

Cary Elza: 7:52

But I also wanted to mention the relationship between Tito the anxiety mosquito and depression kitty is one of the most clever things of this last season. Kelly, you you look like you were about to did I just step on your line?

Kelly Wilz: 8:06

No, I so I one of the things I've been in therapy for ever, because I think it's really important and really healthy. And so one of the things that my counselor said I always remember is anxiety lies. And so I think it's so smart the way that anxiety mosquito tells these lies we the first week we meet them as during when Nick is in summer camp, right? And so he goes out in the woods and he's having a panic attack and the entire time the anxiety mosquito is telling him things that are not true, right. But like here, here's here's all the things you should worry about. And Aren't you worried about this? And so I think it's just so so so smart. The right the way they talk about mental health in this again, and not a judgmental way but in a way is like this is this is how it works. This is how it works when it's working with your brain. I will say I love that. I also love that Jessie's vulva is personified by Kristen Wiig. And so and also in a way that's just so joyful. And so again, like not being afraid of your genitals right and having a positive for women especially to not see your genitals as dirty and polluting. And as something to be afraid of.

Unknown: 9:11

Hello. Hey, girl. Hey. Oh my god. I have been dying to meet you. Oh, cool. Okay, hi, I'm Jessie. Well, I'm your general. Well,

Cary Elza: 9:27

we're having fun. It's fun to say you are not what I was expecting. Do you want the grand tour? Oh, yes, please. Great. Okay.

Kelly Wilz: 9:35

That is just groundbreaking. And it sounds so silly to have Kristen would be saying someone's vulva, but it is and and when they're talking about masturbation or talking about their periods and, and, and how scary it is to put in a tampon for the first time, right and all these things that are just terrifying, and be able to talk through somebody who loves you and wants the best for you. I think that's maybe one of the smartest sort of entities In this show, and I love every minute of it.

Cary Elza: 10:03

That was a fantastic part of season four and I just identified very strongly, but I also love that the tampons themselves Hi boys,

Kelly Wilz: 10:11

taking the scariness out of menstruation, but not the total embarrassment about it right? Because again, like Jesse's pads soaks up the lake, right? And so it's this horrible sort of, oh my gosh, can I go on the water right now, all these things that as a young woman, you're just like, Oh, my gosh, this is awful. This is the worst. But also, it's natural and normal. And so again, just just normalizing it and normalizing so much of it. I that's what I love about the show in general.

Cary Elza: 10:35

It doesn't there's no pain, right? So it's not necessarily associated with like, something that's wrong, really. It's just something that happens and something that you have to learn how to deal with and and the whole same with the tampon I just identified so strongly with, like a 13 year old girl, that, again, wish that I had that, like I wish that somebody had showed me that episode, I think that it would have helped my mental health.

Kelly Wilz: 11:03

When I love the fact that when Jesse gets her first periods, Andrew that helps her right, she's white, because she has white shorts on because that's every girl's nightmare is getting your period with white shorts for the first time. And so they play on that. But it's so loving, right, the way that Andrew helps her and takes care of her and is also openly disgusted. When she talks about it. He vomits right in the bathroom, when she's saying she, she got her period. And so talking about how uncomfortable that is. But at the end of the day, again, it's her it's her friend who is a dude who helps her out and they move forward. Right. And it's just a really, really sweet moment.

Shanny Luft: 11:38

One of the things about the show, I find interesting that even though the creators of the show are roughly my age, mid 40s, they are also producing a show that seems very resonant for where we are right now. That's really interesting to me the way the show, I think started off being, you know, 40 year old white guys who were reflecting on their own childhood. And then I what I read about the show is that the writing room got more diverse. And as it got more diverse, people started bringing in a lot more different kinds of experiences.

Cary Elza: 12:06

I really watched a few episodes for this. And one of the ones that I did rewatch was girls are corny to the storyline about wanting to go to Victoria's Secret to buy like a fancy bra. Because the fancy bra is going to fix everything about your body image. Oh, yeah, I 100% did that like talking to my mother and to buy me like a fancy bra? Is that kid? Yeah, it was it didn't fix anything. And then of course, like once you wear it, you feel really uncomfortable. So that Oh, that resonated with me big time. But what resonated with me even more is the book. Do you all remember? Oh, is it called there's a book that everybody reads in that episode starring Fatima and Gustavo, oh, I forget the title of it. But that book, which is it's a romance novel, right, it makes the rounds of everybody. Everybody wants to read it. And everybody's kind of on the same page. They're like kind of reading it out in the open, but they're all looking at each other because they know that they're, they're all reading a romance novel. And my friends, and I absolutely did that in middle school, we would go to the public library, which was right around the corner from the middle school. And we would take out romance novels. And this is like when I'm like 11 1213. And I would take I would check them out under my own library card. And then I would take them home. And I would read romance novels. Because that is, of course, that's how I perform all of my incredibly unrealistic expectations about sex and romance. So it was not good. Like that was not good. But that is a very incisive commentary on how girls start to get socialized into certain, you know, certain definitions of sexuality versus how boys do. And of course, this show deals with internet pornography in a lot of interesting ways, too. But that episode, I really really appreciated that episode for that detail about how many women are introduced to certain sets of ideas.

Kelly Wilz: 14:12

The fact that the show is portraying middle school kids talking about their bodies and sexuality and puberty is unlike anything I've ever seen. When the episodes I appreciate is the one that talks about Missy masturbating with her glow worm that she takes to like the school sleepover. And the idea that she's been doing this since she was a baby right, since she had an enemy know that little kids do masturbate, like, nothing's gonna happen. But they know what feels good, right? We just don't talk about it because we want to assume that children are just sexless and don't don't don't know about pleasure, even though they absolutely do. And so the fact that teens are talking about this, and sometimes getting the terminology wrong, right, but that they have these feelings, I think is really important to acknowledge that yeah and Middle School. We are all raging hormones, and no one wants to acknowledge it because they just want to assume that that we're not really feeling that way.

Cary Elza: 15:07

We have so much importance placed on the concept of childhood innocence in our culture, that anything that kind of that kind of pops that that idealized bubble is, is something that is even seen as a danger. My favorite storyline, this past summit there this past season was absolutely the Lola and j storyline, which I thought was, of course, incredibly vulgar, but also incredibly sweet. Just utterly affecting that these these two people who who are, you know, compensated for home lives that are very deficient, have just found each other and support each other. And I was actually genuinely sad. At the end of the season. I was like, No, but you know, conflict must ensue. The story must go on. So you can't have people being happy forever. But I thought that their story of the duck with the whole storyline with the the pool that they dug in the backyard like the mud pit that they imagined was their own kingdom was just absolutely the sweetest thing I'd ever seen.

Shanny Luft: 16:17

Do you remember the first storyline with Jay he was having a sexual relationship with a pillow? It was I think a female pillow. Then he meets another pillow who's a boy who's male. And now Jay is exploring his sexual identity with which pillow is he going to be with and the pillow start fighting with each other? That it's it's so weird, right? It's like so it's it's like kind of ridiculous and bizarre and embarrassing. And then at the same time, it's

Kelly Wilz: 16:45

exploring something really substantial. And they have that sort of commentary aware again, Ellie's character who was this pansexual character is seen as sexy and cool, right? Because she because she likes boys and girls and who and whoever else right? But Jays character they actually sort of like put him down. And when he tries to say what I'm like Allie, too, I don't know what I am. Right. And so it and again, it says this commentary and as a country, we are far more accepting of bisexual women than we are bisexual men, right? We just we assume Oh, they're just really gay. They're hiding it. Right? It's because pornography openly portrays women who are making out each other all the time even though they're probably not actually gay or bisexual. But again, like that's a smart commentary to have right that I again don't see anywhere else either.

Shanny Luft: 17:28

So what I was asking you earlier about just specific episodes stood out to you Kelly, you mentioned the episode disclosure. That is an episode in which the school the the the teacher who puts on the school play, decides to do a musical version of a movie I had forgotten ever existed. The movie called disclosure with Michael Douglas and who was the female

Kelly Wilz: 17:51

Demi Moore, right? Because the whole premise is Demi Moore is the boss right? And she and she sexually harasses Michael Douglas just like men sexually harass women that was seen as like equality. It was such a crap take like, if we allow sexual harassment laws to happen, then then women are going to treat men just like men treat women for aeons. Right. And it was it was a really thoughtless take. It was a really, really not well done movie, the politics were awful. And so again, as this show does a really smart commentary on a lot of aspects of me too. I love that the fact they made this musical because it is so random, because it is such an obscure random movie that most people probably either have never seen or have totally forgotten about it to comment on where mi two is right now. Right, which is one of the reasons I just I love it a lot. So for those who haven't seen the episode, Mr. lizer is the one who was the director of the play and he also has like really shitty me to takes as well and, and comments about those a lot. And so one thing that happens is that he hires Lola to be the stage manager, and ends up asking her to give him foot rubs, and it's really inappropriate. And he kind of turns it on her and makes it seem like as though she was making him do it right. And so all of like, the really, really horrible like, it's a scary time for boys kinds of commentary is really woven throughout this episode in a really smart way that really critiques those those comments and challenges those comments. And one of the things I read a really interesting article about this is how Nick's characters were interesting in this too, in terms of how he wants to understand me too, as well and human Jesse have a lot of like hundreds of thoughtful conversations about how Nick wants to be an ally right to his friends, and doesn't know how and how many men I wish could have these honest conversations about like, but I thought you want to dress like a slob, but I don't want to objectify you I don't get it right. I don't get it and to be able to ask the quote unquote dumb questions, I think is really part of this process. We need to give people the space to ask those questions, because we're not always going to get it right. And so there are just many things about this episode that I really love.

Cary Elza: 19:51

There's that one moment in it was I think it's it might be another episode but where they're like yelling at each other and you're like, I guess we need to have these difficult conversations? Yes, I guess we do. Are we having the conversation right now? Yes, the conversation. But that idea of it being a process, right, like we have to keep having conversations that are difficult. Yeah. over and over and over again. Yeah, that was, that's a really smart part of the show.

Shanny Luft: 20:22

Another episode from Season Four Kelly, I wouldn't ask you about is the code switching episode?

Kelly Wilz: 20:26

Those who haven't seen it? It's it's basically Missy, has she in a different episode, I think it's not this episode, she visits her black cousins in Atlanta, I believe, kind of make fun of her for how quote unquote, white she is in terms of the way she talks and the way she is. And so she, they end up being in New York. And I think one of them is in college, and they have a college party. And so she somehow gets talking to the divine. And he has this musical number about code switching. And she has no idea what he's talking about, right. And so in this musical number, he talks about the different ways in which he changes how he speaks, depending on who he is with, right, so if he's around white people, for example, His goal is to make them feel safe, right. So he'll act in a very different way, in a very different mannerisms, to make sure that he has the right tone of voice to make sure that they don't think that he's a threat, right, because as as black men in the US, like, we perceive black men as threatening, because that's how we have been socially conditioned to see them through through most mediated portrayals of them. And then he talks about the ways he talks differently when he's amongst older, older black men. When he talks to to his friends, let me break

Unknown: 21:28

it down for you. As a black kid, you got to learn this handy trick called social self defense, you switch up yo speak and give your manhood tweaked pan and nonionic Will Smith winning a cool like DD or appical as you please. Because when you're young and black, you develop a knack for fun The world is called cause.

Kelly Wilz: 21:53

And so they go to this sort of this college party, and it's much different from what he's imagining, right? Because he's telling Missy, it's gonna be Jay Jay Z and hot tubs and things like that. And it's not that at all right, it's a very sort of thoughtful conversation. And, and sort of two of the characters I think Mrs. Cousin and one of her friends talk about code switching, and so not even labeling it writes, The episode talks about what it is and defines it, but then has two characters that go back and forth about the usefulness of it, right. So if we are code switching to make white people feel better, is that just reinforcing white supremacy, right? Should we not be doing this are we are we kind of, you know, buying into this, I would love to know who the audience is who's watching this show, right? I don't know how many non white people are watching the show on and consuming the show, because it does have a lot of white characters. And so again, I really appreciate it for for even going so far as to hopefully informing its white audience about this thing that happens that you never have to deal with. For that reason. I appreciate it a lot.

Cary Elza: 22:51

I was just gonna say and I love to that that this consideration of code switching ties into the shifts that happens in Missy later, right. So not only does she like give up her overalls, and you know, she has braids now and she she changes her clothes a little bit. But then in the the horror episode, the horror already episode. She's in a hall of mirrors, right? And she's confronting all of these parts of herself, like the part of herself that loves Nathan Fillion, and like pretends to be on a sci fi ship. But so so she's, she's, she's confronting all of these different versions of herself and coming to this understanding that all of those are her. And so it is something that everybody goes through, right, but it's filtered through her specific experience, and it builds upon all the ideas in that episode.

Shanny Luft: 23:37

Okay, so I have an 18 year old son, and a 14 year old daughter, I have both I thought a lot about whether or not I would want my kids to watch the show whether to watch it with them. And also is what I encourage middle school kids to watch it, would you let your kids watch this? Okay, so

Cary Elza: 23:54

I say this is the parent of very young children. So I don't know what it's like to have an adolescent child. Yes. So I would like to think because I think over and over again, how helpful I would have found this show is like a 13 year old, like, oh, and and i and i would like to think that I will encourage them to watch the show. So I so on the one hand, I think that on the other hand, I wonder like, by the time that I'm actually dealing with adolescent kids, will this show be just so teen that they like or not even interested in? Like, I just I don't know what the media landscape is going to look like in 10 years. Honestly, in short, I think it is. I think that it would be a great show for kids to watch. But a a do not want to watch it with them. And be I'm not sure what the best way to present it as a useful text or go to text would be

Kelly Wilz: 24:59

but I don't have Kids and so I don't know what it's like to watch things like this with your kids. But I think like Carrie said, the messages are just so important. And because we have so few of these options like, like, other than this show, I can't think of anything else that maybe even addresses toxic masculinity in such a smart way, right? Or these other sorts of or, or mental health or all the things are women's pleasure, right? Like it just does such a top notch job about all these issues. I care about indigestible, like 30 minute segments, right? And so it's so also it's not asking them to listen to a two hour podcast, but just like, Hey, this is a really entertaining show, and you're gonna learn something really valuable from it.

Cary Elza: 25:37

So I wonder whether the target audience for this or like, the effective audience for this is not kids at all. And in fact that this show is exactly for people our age, who have to have to, I don't know, get used to a new normal or get used to understanding life and identity in different ways. And it kind of just, I don't know, maybe, maybe it's for people in the 35 to 50 something demographic, I don't know. But I think that's an interesting idea that maybe kids don't show me just like, we need this show. And it's also

Kelly Wilz: 26:17

I mean, again, there's, there's a little bit of like, frat boy esque type of culture in terms of the comedy and I love that they use that to like lure you in, but then like, but here's this really progressive messaging, we're gonna like, make digestible, which is really kind of brilliant, right? So you get people who may want to watch it for South Park or family guy, but then it come away being like, oh, but now I know what code switching is.

Shanny Luft: 26:37

Yeah. Nicola john Delaney are like the Trojan horse. Right? They're the white guys who then have smuggle in this really complex show about cultural identity and diversity.

Kelly Wilz: 26:50

Right? We're gonna teach about feminism through masturbation jokes, right? Like,

Shanny Luft: 26:54

oh my god, the bodily fluids on the show. I have a hard time watching the show over dinner. Now out of focus on diarrhea and blood and semen. It's like,

Kelly Wilz: 27:06

doesn't Andrew give birth to, like in in the like forest and camp like he gives birth to a turd, right? Like that happens?

Cary Elza: 27:14

Oh, that was beautiful. I didn't think that they could have reconciled re, like, reconciled that friendship in any other way. I thought that was just the most beautiful. Yes, Andrew

Shanny Luft: 27:24

is. Yes, he's he hasn't pooped like an entire summer. And so he is having arguments with a poop that won't come out of his butt. And I was watching that my heart kind of sank a little bit. And I thought, This is what I'm gonna have to talk about with my colleagues at work shows bizarre. And then to my amazement, the show then turns that into IE, there's a way to describe it, you would have to watch it to understand this really sweet moment where, where Nick and john bellinis character reconcile their relationship over Yes, john Delaney giving birth to a poor baby. I can't even believe I'm saying those words. It sounds so insane.

Kelly Wilz: 28:02

It sounds so dumb. And it's not I want people to like give it a season. Like you may think this is too much. But just please give it time. Because it you will be surprised and shocked. And it'll be heartening. And he will adore it.

Shanny Luft: 28:16

I found the show fascinating and hilarious. But I scratched my head at it and have all kinds of questions about it. And talking to you both has been really helpful

Kelly Wilz: 28:23

when I really get like nerd out about shows with other people who are professional nerds like I am. And so I so appreciate. I wish the audience again could see how much I'm nodding like my head hurts from nodding. Because both of you are so smart and have made such like thoughtful comments. Do you have any other recommendations like what our show is that everyone should be watching right now if they want to be better or smarter on gender or race or things like what have you just loved a bit consuming? Maybe over the past year during pandemic world or even Previous to that.

Cary Elza: 28:53

I know Washington was really really good. Like if you haven't watched watchmen, watchmen was great.

Shanny Luft: 28:59

In addition to watchmen, there was another show on HBO called Lovecraft country. Yes, yes. That is another show that Yeah, I was fascinated and amazed at how it dealt with, again, this kind of fantastical monster world, but then use that to explore race in America in the 1960s. In really clever ways. Yeah, absolutely. Have either of you thought of another one, but go ahead. Oh, I was gonna say Penn 1515.

Cary Elza: 29:27

That's exactly what I've not seen this yet. So I will I will put this on my list.

Shanny Luft: 29:32

Yeah, if you're interested in really good shows about dealing with middle school, done by really smart, contemporary comedians. I think that's that one's perfect.

Cary Elza: 29:40

I mean, I wonder why this is also why we're seeing this kind of renaissance in the depiction of middle school, the kind of the kind of honest depiction of middle schools because Middle School is changing. You know, middle school is more difficult and it was always full of conflict, but the conflicts are, have the potential to affect you for the rest of your life. Now

Shanny Luft: 30:00

It's been fantastic to talk to you both. I really appreciate it. You've helped me see the show better. And that's I feel like there's all we can ask for is if you can learn something that helps you see art in a more sophisticated way. That's I think some of the best things in education can do. Yeah.

Gretel Stock: 30:13

lucky to work with both of you. I this is lovely. This podcast is brought to you by University College at University of Wisconsin Stevens Point. Our mission is to provide coordinated intentional and inclusive services and opportunities through our core values of connecting, supporting, collaborating and engaging. Learn more about UW Stevens Point and all our programs at UW sp.edu